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Neil Gaiman - Doctor Who
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sf1378



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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Neil Gaiman - Doctor Who Reply with quote

Fucking hate Neil Gaiman. Watched his shit episode last night. Pile of wank like the rest of the series so far....I'm also disliking Matt Smith with the main problem being hes too fucking young for the part. I expect the 12th Doc will be a pre - pubescent fuck with what with the current trend of each body getting outwardly younger looking...

Then theres the comment he wrote in the script of some unseen wild as larry cunt of a Time Lord named after one of Fords old models 'The Corsair having regenerated into both male and female incarnations.

Nice one Neil you butter cup arsed biscuit. Now the fans and the 'meedja' band wagon will be harping on about 'WILL THE NEXT DOCTOR BE FEMALE' on and on....nearly 50 years hes been a bloke, we've seen TimeLadies and its apparent they fucked on Gallifrey for someone like The Doctor and others to be born and now this jumped up shit puts this in the mix...

Fucks sakes. I'd HATE it to happen. I like the character being male. Its established. The fantastical aspects are the Tardis, travel through time and space and the notion he can change into a completey different version of himself...read HIMSELF. NOT HERself...

Neil Gaiman, writer of shit and noticably shit covers to his comics, books and graphic novels.....

Fucking hate whats happened and will certainly stop watching if they do this....Thanks Neil, you fucking cunt....


GRRRRAGH!!!!!!!!!!! Rolling Eyes
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hypnotator



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree it was a weak episode and the personification of the Tardis was a very misguided concept. However the first two parter story was on form and Smith's Doctor is even better than his two predecessors, who were both excellent.

Quote:
Then theres the comment he wrote in the script of some unseen wild as larry cunt of a Time Lord named after one of Fords old models 'The Corsair having regenerated into both male and female incarnations.


Crikey Stan this sentence reads like it came out of the Babelfish. Don't stint on your punctuation mate.

Laughing
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sf1378



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Guardian website they've a Q and A session where Gaiman will answer posted q's at 4pm GMT....I've posted a Q concerning said comment I'm pissed about...Hopefully he'll answer.

I've hated the idea of a female Dr. Its just established he's male. If they'd said long ago TimeLords where able to change sex, or where hermaphroditic say then it would be logical....Or if they had taken humanoid form long ago but where essentially sexless so could choose 'male' or 'female' forms ok then, but its a norm now....The Doctors male, he's been a Dad, he's been married, he has a Grand Daughter, possible she's died too, perhaps in Davies established Last Great Time War....

Ugh....

The programme to me, conveys the subtext of the writers and producers own prejudices. Afterall, its written by White, middle class types, produced by white middle class types and they probably don't really have many 'friends of colour' but are happy to eat 'exotic foods or visit exotic climes'....They probably think they are Left wing liberals but really, they are probably insular and only frequent or date the same type: Caucasian. Does this sound disparagingly broad sweeping in terms of a generalisation? YES. But its true. Even Greg Dyke, former D.G. of The BBC lamented over the 'Whiteness' at the Beeb.

Look at how Freema Agyman was cast as THE FIRST BLACK ASSISTANT TO THE DOC! WOW FUCKING WOW!!! Shouldn't it have been: Freema Agyman is NEW COMPANION? Notice no mention of colour in that sentance? But alas, no. Its interesting how The Doctor apparently loved a White girl with little or no education (Rose) whilst Martha was educated, from a Middle Class family and had career aspirations..But was Black. Woe betide The eponymous TimeLord ever falling for a....'Black Girl'...Oh no.

I expect, if I met Freema and asked her about this, she'd probably smile knowingly and hint at agreement. I've often found the viewpoint of other Ethnic peoples (given I am one myself) to usually be similar to my own. The programme reeks of White Middle England again and whilst Davies did Gay agendarise it to the point of going overboard he also showed his own prejudices, perhaps he doesn't realise it, but they come through to me. The same goes for the current production team and casting. Its basically a case of casting what 'they understand, accept and agree with' i.e. whats similar to them, and that is basically they are White and the whole cast is White. We may as well be back with that racist shit Hartnell as far as I'm concerned....

What is also irritating is that when it comes to an out-going Dr and the speculation of who will be the next incarnation, we then get the usual 'female Dr? shit.....However, its interesting in the entire near 50 year history neither a Black nor Asian actor has been cast in the role. Why? Compared to a 'female Dr' this really is something far more revolutionary and yet reeks of institutionalised racism...It just shows that whilst a programme can come a long way and endure as a society we have got nowhere. We may look 'multi-cultural' but by fuck we are certainly not. Even if they did do just that and have an Asian or West Indian actor in the role then they'd 'have to' explain the change in 'race'....they don't even have the nous to come up with an idea such as 'the 11th Doctor's body, even at a DNA level was so damaged that the regenerative process had to tap into regressive DNA to complete the cycle, illustrating that within the Doctors own family he had mixed-race ancestry'....Ha, as if they'd have the balls to do that....

I hate Gaiman. He's overblown. Fans of his brand of tripe have been pattign his ego on The Guardian and no doubt he loves that. I don't. He's opened up a can of worms as far as I'm concerned....

Then theres Smith. If you all recall I was vocal and said I liked him as the TimeLord...well, now I don't. He's too young for one thing. And coupled with the writing, the repetitive Amy fancies him and Rory's a mug, the onus of Amy being 'feisty' and clearly a middle aged pervs fantasy as a characterisation makes me sick. I used to enjoy watching Who. I'd be glued to the screen every weekend but since the new series I half watch it and can't give a toss as to what occurs. Its crap now. The sooner Smith fucks off, the sooner Amy and Rory fuck off the better....

As for my comments on race, think on this dear Innarders...I am NOT White. Ethnic people no matter how much they may not admit it DO see England and the English totally differently. We see and experience racism in many, many clever covert forms in these so called 'enlightened age'...You could say I'm a TimeLord and see the world and the Universe differently...and thats the heart of the matter here, with Smith, the casting etc and...unfortunately Gaimans brand of crap and his throwaway comment in the mix....Dr Who? More like 'DR FOR MIDDLE CLASS SO CALLED LIBERALS WHO SECRETLY HAVE A BIT OF DAILY MAIL WITHIN THEM'....
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A local politician seems to also dislike Neil Gaiman...
(albeit for different reasons)
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/05/05/politicians-mother-makes-him-apologize-for-calling-neil-gaiman-pencil-necked-geek/
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crikey Stan you don’t half talk some rot.

The one point I agree with you on is that we still live in an institutionally racist society. Since 9-11 things have been worse. I am part Indian, on my great grandfather’s side, and although I appear to all intents and purposes Caucasian, I despise racism, and having relatives still alive who are half Indian, as well as working in engineering, where people are educated but many are small minded, and listening to their bigotry, I am well aware of how far we have not come.

But you argue so fervently that we SHOULD have a black and/or Asian Doctor, in the name of equality, and in the same post you rail against the possibility of a female Doctor, and worse still, you accuse the programme of having a “gay agenda”. If someone asserted that your employers have an “Asian agenda” in employing you, I expect you would be outraged, and rightfully so.

It seems to me that you have a bit of a Daily Mail attitude yourself when it comes to gays. The involvement of one gay writer and one bisexual actor in the series does not constitute an evil plot to “turn” all viewers and then shag them up the arse. If that is not what you mean by an agenda, then please explain what you DO mean.

Does it occur to you that there might be gay members on this forum, who will be offended by your comments in the same way that you would feel hurt if someone started spouting racist bollocks? It’s no different, Stan; it’s all bigotry. Gay people aren’t looking to take over the world any more than you are; they just want to live their lives without persecution.

I thought the new Dr. Who was going to be crap, like the movie with Paul McGann was, but Russel T. Davies made it into something good. I had no idea he was gay or that he wrote “Queer as Folk” until it got mentioned on this forum.
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sf1378



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't talked 'rot'. And I don't have 'Daily Mailism' neither. Firstly, one of my best friends is gay. That should speak for itself.

Secondly, there have been many fans who got pretty fed up of all the metro-sexualised comments or themes within the show during Davies tenure - that was my point on the so called 'gay agenda'. To me, Davies made it perfectly clear that it was in his view far more acceptable to have gay, bisexual characters than say an ethnic Dr or The Dr falling for a person 'of colour'.

Whether someones gay, lesbian, straight it matters little to me but when I'm watching a tv show thats supposed to be entertainment like Dr Who I get fed up of innuendo laden comments illustrating a character like a dog with two proverbial dicks on heat, in this instance Captain Jack... To put it another way, I'm recently watching Coronation St again and also hate Tommy Duckworth, a new character whose a hetrosexual 'dog with two cocks' and his 'I'm so cheeky I get all the women' crap does also piss me off. I'm not a prude. I love sex, I openly admit I like watching hardcore porn, its just that in certain contexts its a case of 'leave out' as the saying goes.

If I want to watch something drama based that is considered raunchy I will. Recently I loved watching 'The Crimson Petal and The White' on BBC2 and all the sex scenes in it added to the whole. I liked 'Tipping The Velvet' a drama on lesbianism, not for the tittilation but for the story. I loved watching 'Brokeback Mountain' and saw it as a love story irrespective of gender.

Now, Dr Who. Its quite clear the programme makers don't have the guts to have an ethnic lead. It took them UNTIL 2007 to have a BLACK TimeLord and that was shown in a flashback, with said figure in the background, with the child Master looking into the rift in time as a child that drove him bonkers....

The programme makers to me, write what they recognise and understand, cast what they recognise and understand and given that when Davies wrote it, being openly gay he introduced gay themes into the show. on one hand brilliant, people were begining to see it as normal as whatever normality is meant to be in sexuality...Then theres the darker side and thats the fact that White people produce the show and they only write about what they understand....Why then was Idris The Tardis Lady in Gaiman's episode cast with Suranne Jones? Shes White. See my point? Since the new tenure with Moffat there hasn't been one ethnic person in the show....

Now, as for rallying against a Female Dr? Why not? Its established the characters male for over 40 years. Anyhow, I expect theres more chance of a female Dr than an Ethnic actor ever playing the role - irrespective of being male or female.

Finally I do take extreme umbrage that you consider me homophobic - but given were not in a Pub typing on a forum can give that viewpoint so on your part I'll assume its a misunderstanding. My entire point is that the programmes produced by insular White production teams that prance around thinking they're liberals when its clear they aren't....they can make rubbish statements like sex changing Timelords leading to the ruin of an established male character but woe betide said character regenerating into a darker skinned male form. To me, they can easily have The Dr become female and hint at it but they never, never have the guts to make the character ethnic. Thats my point.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Stan does have some points worth mentioning. I Generally notice that European television is far more gay positive than US television, so I guess it doesn't really raise an eyebrow with me when I see it on Dr Who. I do have a problem that all timelords are ASSUMED to be white.
I may live in the usa, but the difference in how characters are portrayed is so night and day. In the usa, African Americans often get pigeon holed into playing the tough urban crime figures, but in the UK, they are just so emasculated it is pathetic. I love Guy Richie films, but the black characters in SNATCH were downright racist. You can't even have bollocks unless you are white.

Maybe it is because my dad was 1/2 sioux and now that I think of it, I guess everyone in my family seems to have gravitated to partners from more exotic lands (on our family's case Africa, Philippines, Mexico, Iran, etc) But the thing is I actually never THOUGHT about it.
Everyone in my family is just a slightly different skin shade.
What is wrong with timelords not being so skinny & pasty looking?
I brought this topic up to every Dr WHo fan I knew and the scary thing is that NONE of them were for introducing other ethnicities into the timelord world. WTF is up with that? Shocked
Does no one see that this is a problem?
Stan I think you are right to point out such racism.

Heck, from most of the UK cinema I have seen you'd think there were no minorities living in England. THey are too busy making ethnic slurs about the scots & the irish.
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sf1378



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guyx. Cool

Given you come from a more mixed background you'll no doubt be aware of covert modern racism. My Sister, who I don't get along with but won't go into is married to a White guy, a former work colleague I remember is married to a woman from Hong Kong, and when I both asked them on separate occasions that since being with a partner of ethnicity did they sense racism and they said yes.

Another way of putting it is that in journalism the overall objective is to be just that...objective in terms of what your content or story is trying to put forward but subliminal prejudices will come to the fore and these same said viewpoints may then be interpreted as just that, an opinion or viewpoint. Its this I am trying to get across. The writers and producers are all White Middle Class types and don't really have any exposure to the so called 'multi-cultural' nature of the UK when putting together DR WHO. Irrespective of gay etc. I did notice how Davies tenure did have some ethnicity in the show but even so, it wasn't 'right' to me and thats coming from someone 'of colour' seeing the world I live in in terms of a diadactic: firstly as a so called 'adjusted and integrated member of 'multi-cultural' England and secondly as the son of Immigrants who've experienced all forms of overt and covert racism and has been brought up to realise I am NOT English. I hold a UK Passport and was born here, but I'm certainly not English. Amy, Rory, The Doctor are all White, the villains are on the whole all White - why was Idris in The Doctors Wife cast as White then? Hmm....Why is it not ONE fan has ever considered the possibility of even The Master regenerating as either Asian or Black? It would be easier for the villain to be outwardly as 'dark' as his madness than for the hero of the piece? But no....

A few years ago, Adrian Charles a BBC Presenter did a programme on the lack of integration between 'Whites and Coloureds' (thats my description of the programmes content. I am coloured and grew up in an age when it was acceptable to use so still feel okay to surmise with it) and he admitted he didn't have any real Black or Asian friends. At one point he tried mixing with ethinc people and admitted he was...uncomfortable Rolling Eyes ; he then met up with nicer people who do mix with other cultures in the UK and again found it fascinating...The bit I remember best was when he then said to a woman off camera:

'Actually, I DO have a coloured friend'

Off camera voice: Who?!

'You'.

Off camera voice of woman: 'I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND!!!'

It was his Producer, she's Black.

The guy is an insular cock. But that again illustrates my point. The writers write about what they only know, see and identify with whether they admit to it or know they are doing it or not.

I'm getting sick of Modern Who at the moment. I actually am amazed I despise it now. Its really still a programme for the White Middle Class so called Liberals. When they aren't. Like I've said, they can try and meddle with an established MALE character and theres a likelyhood if there was a female DR she'd be White whilst the likelyhood of the Dr regenerating into an Asianesque incarnation or the same being said of The Master, Rassillon etc never happening...they don't have the GUTS. Compared to Amy fucking Pond or River Fucking Song they don't have the nous to cast the Asian girl or the Black boy (appologies for not knowing the actors names!) from The Sarah Jane Adventures as the Dr's companions either...its all very very telling and very, very pathetic....

For a show like Dr Who to truly illustrate differences you actually need a production team thats mult-cultural and that happening at the BBC? Like FUCK it will....
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example that illustrates UK racism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuXmPfBDuM

Good lord, can you see just how LITTLE power the character has? He is like a Rabbit being hunted down.
Sure you can argure that it is all in fun, but all the black characters are treated this way in the film.

While I do look white, I have "funny eyes" and My parents ran into situations where there were restrooms stating NO INDIANS ALLOWED when they were on their honeymoon. It was the era where nobody talked about being Native american and I grew up seeing depictions of goofy Indians on F-TROOP as well as hearing classic songs like the following.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZYAOlk1WI

The sooner Dr Who changes from just being skinny pastey faced Doctors, the better.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear you Guyx.

About one of the few times UK TV has got something right on ethnicity is the Masood family in Eastenders... but they are fast becoming a load of shite like the rest of the plots...
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Firstly, one of my best friends is gay. That should speak for itself.


Phew Stan! For a moment I thought you were a subjective minded chap who makes a big noise about prejudice against his own group but offers little sympathy for other groups who are on the receiving end of prejudice. I was worried that you might even lay yourself open to the accusation of having your own egalitarian agenda, something like “all minorities need equality, but mine needs more equality than the others”. So thank goodness you cleared that up.

The word agenda does imply an ulterior motive, though, and I’d love to know what your gay friend thinks about your perception of Davies’ “gay agenda”. From what I remember there was one scene where Barrowman talks to a woman, Tennant says “stop it”, then he talks to a man and Tennant says “stop it” again. Hardly a dog with two dicks - was there other stuff I missed? It seems to me that the Beeb are gently trying to instill a little tolerance in their viewers. They’ve been doing the same for ethnic groups for far longer. But then I’m 87.5% honky so what’s my opinion worth?

If you apply your arguments against a female Doctor to an argument against a black or Asian Doctor though, they sound very dodgy indeed. “It is established the character has been white for 40 years”. It doesn’t sound good does it?
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could also say that the Timelords were assumed to be hetero until some characters came out (of the tardis). Gay characters are easy to write into the story since even in Shakespeare a little subtle innuendo goes a long way and Conservative minded folk can CHOOSE to ignore that the chttp://visibleinnards.org/forum/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=12814haracters are gay.
Characters of different minorities are harder to ignore.
Crossdressing, transgendered and gay characters have long been a part of British television. If there is actually racial diversity in the UK, why is it not accurately represented in sci-fi? Was the cast of THE MATRIX that unusual?

Remember decades ago with John Wayne or Tony Randal playing Asian characters. (OH THE PAIN)
I remember as a child seeing Chuck Connors play a native American. CHUCK CONNORS! All the Native American actors of the time were busy trying to get caucasian roles and keeping tight lipped about their ethnicity. Look at RANDOLPH MANTOOTH. He;s Gay AND Native American, but kept closeted about both. A gay friend of mine 'Paul' grew up as a Chinese-American and believed for years as a kid that David Carradine of KUNG FU was Asian, because there were no real Asian role models on US television in the 1970's.

Of the Gay characters on TV, how many of them are minorities?
Just like Vulcans on StarTrek There must be some darker skinned timelords yet to be revealed. Perhaps they are just waiting until sweeps week?
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell will freeze, pigs will fly, Martians will invade before Brit Sci Fi and Dr Who have believable ethnic actors/actresses in it.... Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Martha Jones was a great assistant and rather gorgeous. I inferred that the Doctor's lack of romantic interest in her was at least partly because he didn't want to go there after falling for his last assistant and then having to leave her in another dimension.

Donna Noble was cack though.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Gene Roddenberry had been allowed to write for Dr Who, the Doctor would have bedded a different alien every episode.
But that was sort of Gene's personal life becoming part of the Kirk/Riker personna. Despite being a player, he was very big in cultural integration outside of his personal life as well.
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